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Poster: mikeyank99 Date: May 23, 2009 12:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: best china/rider

best china/rider 12-29-77

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 23, 2009 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

As always, I think I'll go against the grain and admit that I prefer China and Rider as separate songs, not as China>Rider. Sometimes the transition is jammin', but I actually think that the Feelin' Groovy/UJB/w/e-it's-called jam is pretty pedestrian, kindergarten stuff compared to other jams (think Slipknot! or The Eleven)...

Favorite China Cat Sunflower (explosive!):

http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-06-05.sbd.cotsman.15204.sbeok.shnf

Favorite I Know You Rider (righteous!):

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1966-09-16.vintagedead.25283.sbeok.shnf

That being said, I will put a link to an UNUSUAL China/Rider. It's different than the rest because it's so...durn....slow....

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1972-07-18.sbd.miller.32878.flac16


This post was modified by Styrofoam Cueball on 2009-05-23 23:46:16

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 23, 2009 6:41pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

agreed, the earlier China Cat sequences are pretty special; have you checked out the 2/22/68 version from the taper section of a couple of years ago?

http://www.dead.net/features/tapers-section/february-12-february-18-2007

perfect example of why '68 is THE year

This post was modified by Arbuthnot on 2009-05-24 01:41:49

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Poster: Styrofoam Cueball Date: May 23, 2009 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

Those early DS/CCS/Eleven suites are interesting. The GD obviously wanted an upbeat rocker, in "E", to put between the ethereal Dark Star and the swingin' The Eleven, and the early CCS's were in that slot, St. Stephen not having been written yet. When Stephen was put in that slot, CCS was moved upward to "G" and removed from the suite. I like it better in the 'higher' key: suits Jer's voice better.

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Poster: falconcry77 Date: May 23, 2009 5:32pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

speaking of UNUSUAL china>riders, it's hard to ignore 06-26-74 (dick's picks 12). The drawn out jam for an intro and the "feelin groovy jam" in the seguey are both not only unique, they are very well done, especially the end of "feelin groovy" into rider - just exactly perfect.

here's an aud, but i'd suggest the picks...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd74-06-26.moore.weiner.gdADT17.16037.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: roo_nyc Date: May 23, 2009 6:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I love this one too. It's clear Garcia had been listening to a lot of Muscle Shoals records that day; he starts off funky, phil figures it out after a measure, and the boys just take off into this greasy collard green jam. Phil tries to head into feelin' groovy early, but Garcia's not ready, and pulls the entire band back - there's one measure they're all playing the same note - and then off he goes again.

Great stuff. Long transition, too.

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Poster: Sh3rman420 Date: Feb 16, 2010 7:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

6/16/74 Greatest China/Rider ever

Can get the whole show from Nugs.net in free stash

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Poster: Ras ViKing Date: May 24, 2009 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I don't often seek out China>>Rider per say I like it and am always glad when it pops up in a show but it seldom is the basis for choosing a show for listening.

That having been said, and not seeing it on the already mentioned list of examples and definitely STRANGE I'd have to go with 1988-07-29 Leguna Seca Recreation Area [http://www.archive.org/details/gd88-07-29.aud.hayum.5395.sbeok.shnf].

There's something about the way China segues into Crazy Fingers that just make me think that this should have been the next step in the China>>Rider evolution. There's no fumbling or missed beats. Everyone's there. It's natural. And it just feels good when you start bouncing into the IKYR from CF.

It's too polished to have never crept up again. After so many years of China being paired with IKYR it couldn't have been just a whimsy. Not that smoothly and calmly.

But ymmv

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Poster: BongWzrd Date: May 26, 2009 8:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I think only one other person mentioned 12-06-73-Cleveland,OH........David Gans swears by this China>Rider as one of the best......

http://www.archive.org/details/gd73-12-06.sbd.kaplan-fink-hamilton.4452.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: Mark in Vermont Date: May 26, 2009 11:09am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

If you get a chance, listen to the 9-7-90 China-->Rider, which is probably my high-enery favorite. Do you folks think it compares favorably with 11-24-79 and 12-6-73? (It's fun that they're all from different eras!)

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1990-09-07.sbd.miller.92240.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: Ras ViKing Date: May 27, 2009 4:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I too was at this [and the next night] and I recall it was fun. It's been a while since I listened to it though. But since I recently picked up the GratefulDead1990-09-07.Holtz.Naks.flac16 I guess I'll just have to crank it up and give it a refresher listen 8^}

Thanks for bringing it back to my attention.

This post was modified by Ras ViKing on 2009-05-27 11:47:56

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Poster: stuffyhead Date: May 26, 2009 1:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

My new favorite has become 6/26/74. Killer transition!

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Poster: grendelschoice Date: May 26, 2009 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

Elbow beat me to the mention of 2/24/74, which I agree is the "best."

But let us not forget that one of the very best, tightest, rocking-est versions is on display in crystal clear format on the recently released Winterland '73 box set.

The Dark Star from this show always gets the attention, but I'll put the CHINA>RIDER from 11/11/73 right up there with it. Go back and listen if it's been a while.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: May 26, 2009 10:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

That's an underrated show -- Vince's first (my second). It's a good China> Rider, but i don't think it really competes with the 73-74 era versions.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: May 26, 2009 10:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

12/6/73 China> Rider is darn near perfect. Here Comes Sunshine is the highlight of that show though. Absolutely stunning. There may be better China> Riders, but I don't think there's a better HCS.

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Poster: spirit of eden Date: May 26, 2009 11:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider


I ve many favorites , but I love Jan 10 1970 in San diego CA . Simply classic .

Another d be the Oct 19 1973 - DP XIX . real fine

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: May 24, 2009 7:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

My favorite China Rider is the version from 9-12-81, The ikyr is out of this world!!! Check out Phil and jerry during the break in Rider, phenomenal!!

Any show wih a China Rider end of set 1 and Scarlet Fire start to the second gets a nod from me!!!

http://www.archive.org/details/gd81-12-09.sbd.clugston.13061.sbeok.shnf

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2009-05-25 02:50:42

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Poster: DEETS Date: May 26, 2009 4:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

"Quintesential." A good word to describe this China>Rider..May I add "YOUNG, RAW, INTENSE AND FOCUSED."

http://www.archive.org/details/gd70-10-04.sbd.cotsman.4942.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: agl89 Date: May 23, 2009 6:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

12/6/73 - pretty nice ...4/1/80 - smokin

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Poster: stratocaster Date: May 23, 2009 12:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I'm not sure that there is a "best" china rider, unlike other tunes that have a clear "best" version...HCS 12-19-1973 for instance...however the following need to be identified...

pre-retirement the best version is 08-27-1972
11-11-1973, 05-19-1974 and 06-26-1974 deserve mention

post retirement, there's a number a great versions, they are: 12-29-1977, 05-09-1979, 12-09-1981, 04-14-1982, 10-11-1983, 10-15-1983, 06-25-1985, 09-20-1990, 04-01-1991

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 23, 2009 3:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

hey Strat, I usually almost always agree with you but have to disagree than any tune has a clear best version. I think there are many best versions but not any singular one. For instance I don't think 12-19-73 is the best HCS, at least not my favorite. I like the 2-15-73 version better myself but I'm not sure I can say it's the best.

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Poster: stratocaster Date: May 23, 2009 3:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

everything is subjective of course, even when trying to be as objective as possible...the 02-15 version is great, as is 04-02-73, 06-10-73, 11-11-73, but 12-19 is the monster, they've had 10 months to work it out and nail it...there's very few other tunes that I personally feel have a greatest version, it's a very, very short list...for instance, I put 03-24-1990 as the best Loser ever, hands down, but i'm sure there's somebody out there who thinks otherwise...another is 05-08-1977 as the best Dew ever, although not my personal favorite version, my personal favorite version isn't as mammoth...

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Poster: barongsong Date: May 25, 2009 10:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I was listening to 6-16-90 the other day and while the Chinacat portion is well played it's basically a warm up for the Rider portion that I thought was outstanding.
I know this isn't on the archive in sb but if you have the video or, something other, check it out, I'd like to hear your opinion of it.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: May 26, 2009 10:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

6/26/74 will always be the King Kong version to me, but wherever the apex of this combo's evolution lies, IMO it falls squarely before the 1975 hiatus.

Not that there aren't some great versions from the late 70s and 80s, but there's something magical about the pre-1975 transtion jams that they never really seemed to tap into again after the break. I always thought even the best later day versions sounded a bit rushed, as if they were in a hurry to get to the end.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 23, 2009 1:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

2-24-74

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Poster: Arbuthnot Date: May 23, 2009 2:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

pithy

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Poster: high flow Date: May 26, 2009 11:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

4/5/71

This one is nothing like the GIANTS of 73. Those versions have beautiful, jazz-laced 5 minute transitions.

4/5/71 just cuts to the point. It's somewhat terse and forceful(I'm referencing the jboy thesaurus for Heads). And in the spirit of '71 this version splits your head like a melon.

So, you've got that goin' for you.

Enjoy.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1971-04-05.sbd.cantor.gmb.96269.flac16

Sorry. I actually though this was unstreamable because of the commercially released portion. I was wrong.

But I was right about this China>Rider.

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-05-23 23:09:32

This post was modified by high flow on 2009-05-26 18:25:10

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: May 23, 2009 3:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

yes

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Poster: bluedevil Date: May 23, 2009 11:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

just a night at the family dog:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvq2JTWdJ1U


bonus filler from the pool at esalen?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jxs0ybnsEQ&;feature=related

Micky's ex girlfriend groovin' at 3:14. She's still in the neighborhood and going strong...


This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-05-24 06:53:22

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-05-24 06:56:42

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2009-05-24 06:58:06

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: May 23, 2009 12:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

imo it's 5-19-74

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Poster: yesss! Date: May 23, 2009 8:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

these are all great ones. i like 5/19/74 best myself, but a few more that i go back to are 2/28/73, 5/25/74, 3/9/81, 7/17/89, and 9/20/90.

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Poster: fenario80 Date: May 26, 2009 11:11am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

3-09-1981 must be included in this conversation ...

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 26, 2009 7:20am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I always love the intricate and beautiful jams of early 70's versions, but for pure jaw dropping power, you'll be hard pressed to beat this first set opening, Phil bombing, Jerry shredding monster:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd79-11-24.sbd.clugston.10022.sbeok.shnf


This post was modified by SomeDarkHollow on 2009-05-26 14:20:20

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: May 26, 2009 9:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

I must concur with you on 11/24/79. Certainly not the most creative segue, but likely the tightest ever. And possibly the best ever I Know You Rider?

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: May 26, 2009 10:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: best china/rider

Yep. This Rider is just insane. As a whole it might not be the best combo out there, but the power of the Rider overshadows just about any other one I've heard.

Again, intricate? No. Very few steamrollers are.